I clearly understand you! That just goes to show you that we ALL HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS!

Good lord.

By American Dream I mean exactly my grandparents generation. My grandfather was born in Detroit, MI in 1921 from Yugoslavian parents. When he was 9 they left him in Detroit for three months by himself. He shinned shoes for money for crying out loud. He met my grandmother in Germany during the war, they got married, moved to Indiana then South America and then Illinois. My grandfather with five girls put himself through school at Northwestern, he retired at 60 and when he died he owned a nice home as well as a rental property. Or my paternal grandparents: they bought a 1950's rambler ranch in 1952 and in the '80's they paid the sucker off and lived in comfort. That is my version of the American Dream. Not some 6000 sq foot house with four garages and some luxury import parked in them. Hey, if I win the lotto or get a really great job, then fine, but the average American Joe and Jane shouldn't be living beyond their means. And if they didn't, we wouldn't be in the trouble we are in now!

As far as the people these days, well sorry to say but they bit off more then they can chew. Americans these days are greedy and we feel we are entitled to everything, they moved to Phoenix and Las Vegas and bought houses they could not have afforded. They believed that the houses would continue to appreciate and they lived off the equity and now those same houses you speak of are in foreclosure and the copper is being stripped out.

So read my post again you will see that I said that IN MY OPINION that I felt success is a person who lives within their means, owns a home and can sleep at night. So if you make $48K a year, don't buy a $300K house unless you have $75K down!

Anyway, I am seriously done with this topic and I will not respond to it anymore. I give up!

Society and the world market has changed. The American Dream can mean a lot of different things to a lot of people. We still have a lot of immegrants coming over wanting the freedoms that we have and the desire for a better life. I think that is part of the American Dream because not every country has the freedoms that we do here and we are not told that this is what kind of job we are going to have or if we are going to a university to major in a certian field after high school. Other counties do do that or have done it in the past.

I am venting here so please take my comments in stride everyone...................... I mean not to offend anyone but the "American Dream" thing touched a nerve..............

American Dream ? Owning a home and living within your means ? Owning a home that your paying on that's worth 40 % less than the mortgage or out right owning a home that has and continues to depreciate ?

Living within your means ? I guess that means living in a state such as Nevada where 1 in 16 houses are in foreclosure. Or in a neighborhood where houses have been stripped of copper because its more profitable to "deplumb" a house than to rob a store ?

Living within your means is going to work where you might be laid off that day and go out into a world where the unemployment rate hovers near and in some places over 10% and some states are now paying up to 79 weeks of unemployment

Living the "American Dream" is now defined as going to work each day and hoping that if your called into the office or your supervisor comes to your cube that the news is you need to work extra hours tonight, come in on the weekend to support some project or to just work some over time. Whats the saying these days "Do more with less ?" Living the American Dream is trying to continue your education while you continue to mount debt for a job that might not be there when you graduate or is there but there are 50 people more qualified than you with 10 years experience who will take the job for less than you ever thought just to have some income coming into the household.

How about your Grandparents who have had to come out of retirement to work part time jobs because their 401K is now worth a Greyhound Bus Ticket and their dream of the Golden Years is just that, a dream.

Sorry guys but in my opinion there is no such thing as "The American Dream"

I agree ColoNative, which is pretty darn hard these days.

Yeah, the American dream is getting harder to achieve.

I agree ColoNative, which is pretty darn hard these days.

I think somebody who lives within their means, owns a home and can sleep easy at night has acheived status and success.

++++++++++++++++++++1

I totally agree Colo!

I am trying to a degree to stay off Amex's radar not not suffer any more AA's from them. I am sure that my conversion from the Clear to Blue Cash and just getting approved and using my Amex green has put me on the radar.

That's just it ColoNative though. American Express cards no longer carry the prestige they used to. I remember a time when you would pull out an Amex card (no matter what color) and everyone would stare at you with envy. Those days are long gone with the exception of their black card, but those cards aren't issued to your average everyday Joe Blow. Any person able to meet the guidelines established for that card is worthy of recognition and accolades. Besides that, a lot of perks and gifts come along with it. No one even gives you a second glance when you pull out an Amex card that is, unless they're handing it back to you because they do not accept them. I like American Express, but they're not all that. That's just my opinion, though, since I'm entitled

I agree. By caliber I meant the annual fee. Back in '99 when I was 20 I felt pretty darn fly when I pulled out my Amex Gold. I prefer getting things for free these days and I do not spend enough to warrant any of the fees. I love my Blue card and would not consider a green/gold/platinum unless I made a heck of a lot more and travel a lot more. Status does not mean much to me anymore. I think somebody who lives within their means, owns a home and can sleep easy at night has acheived status and success.

I agree with you smcc which is why I try to tell my boyfriend that he should use the card more often so he can get his money back via rewards. I want an American Express card for the same reason I wanted a Discover which is self gratification. Both issuers take pride in who they issue their cards to and that's a fact that cannot be disputed.

charonh, your opinion is valid, Amex isn't what it used to be as far as prestige, but like Discover, its unique unto itself. My Visa Signature, its a nice card, but its not an Amex. You speak of your boyfriend having a Green Card, so I know at times you have been to the site and have your opinion on it. I think the site offers more information for the customer regarding his acct, special offers, in depth information regarding travel, reward gifts, credit related data, etc., that Visa Signature doesn't

Now I agree with everyone else, if I'm traveling be it domestic or overseas I'm going to make my Amex work for me in every situation possible.

The AF, my thing is you can put the money back for it and once you have the $95, $125, or $450, then apply for the card/upgrade and your fee is already in hand. I know budgeting out the annual fee over a 12 month cycle is a little less than $40 a month and it might seem like a bill for some of us, but we all let that amount slip through our hands at one point or another so why not having something tangible to show for it ? Then again to have something and not make full use of it doesn't seem wise either.

That's just it ColoNative though. American Express cards no longer carry the prestige they used to. I remember a time when you would pull out an Amex card (no matter what color) and everyone would stare at you with envy. Those days are long gone with the exception of their black card, but those cards aren't issued to your average everyday Joe Blow. Any person able to meet the guidelines established for that card is worthy of recognition and accolades. Besides that, a lot of perks and gifts come along with it. No one even gives you a second glance when you pull out an Amex card that is, unless they're handing it back to you because they do not accept them. I like American Express, but they're not all that. That's just my opinion, though, since I'm entitled.

I don't know, a Whopper sounds really good right now! You make a good point and ultimately it is your choice. I just clearly remember paying the $75 a year for my old Gold card and I never once used any of the rewards. I guess if you have the means for a card of that caliber then grab it by the horns.

Now those amounts Eldarwen we would account for in our daily lives ! $450 is no small amount either but when put into perspective to how we live our daily lives and what we spend money on over a 1 year period, then its not really that bad. As you know if you do upgrade to that card, they want that fee right up front with the next billing cycle !

Then a $450 AF is not as bad as the Amex Black $2,500 AF and a $5,000 initiation fee. Now that boggles my mind.